The case for staying online
Meme historian Aidan Walker says people still have power on the internet.
Embedded is your essential guide to what’s good on the internet, written by Kate Lindsay and edited by Nick Catucci.
Welcome to Embedded’s corner of the dark forest. —Kate
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Thrilled to finally have some fun, inconsequential, not at all politics-related internet culture to hash out on today’s ICYMI:
A few weeks ago, we had
on the ICYMI podcast. We ended up in such an in-depth conversation about the power of memes as a coping mechanism that I didn’t get a chance to ask him about one of the things I was most excited to chat about, which is a recent piece he wrote for his newsletter called “Don’t log off.”
Right now in Embedded, I am clearly erring on the side of “do log off.” But more important than either position is that whatever we choose in pursuit of a better online world is sustainable. I just couldn’t see how that would be the case if I, for instance, stayed on Twitter. I was eager to see the other side of the coin and, unsurprisingly, what followed was an emboldening conversation about the power we as regular people hold online, and how to find our space in a “dark forest.”
In "Don't log off," you argue against a lot of recent advice about surviving this administration—including things I've written in Embedded! I'd love to hear how you came to that opinion.
I came to that opinion because I've done a lot of studying of ideas like surveillance, capitalism, and techno-feudalism, and the power these platforms have to move opinion, to move markets, and to move people. And it's like, we're gonna be governed through this stuff no matter what. There's no putting the cat back in the bag. And I'd sort of felt there was a strain in a lot of coverage that was kind of like, for your mental health be less online. But then there's another side of it that's like, be less online and now you're going to take a tango class and get into knitting and do all this stuff that seems very optimistic. I wanted to think of how I might find a solution that matched who I am—not that I never take a tango class or knit—but we have to start from where we are, thinking about what we can do on these platforms to further the causes of love and light.
It reminds me a little bit of when Trump first won and everyone was like, I'm moving to Canada. And the response to that was like, we actually need you here because if everyone but his supporters leave, then that makes him even more influential. When you think of ways that you can further hope and light online, what are you hoping people do?
Good question. It depends a little bit on what part of the internet we're talking about. I think the best comparison for wanting to go to Canada instead of the US is wanting to get off of Instagram or something. It feels like your participation isn't just bad for you in that you're just viewing tons of AI slop, but maybe you're also somehow complicit. And that almost parallels the like, “do you change the institution from within?” question.
So that's one side of it. But another side of it is, overall on the internet we have more power than we're usually led to believe. We're not just users and consumers, we're producers. And I think even within these big platforms, like you think of how important Twitter before Musk was for so many social movements, you think of how useful Reddit still is for a lot of people who have questions about not just how to do X, Y, or Z, but also [to share that] this complicated interpersonal situation has happened and I don't know how to feel about it, and people are there to give advice. So there are still pockets of really genuine connection going on on the internet despite it being enshittified. And, you know, it might get worse, in which case maybe go to Canada. Not that Canada's, like, heaven.
The conversation we had on the podcast was about memes as a coping mechanism, but I also feel like memes are an information-sharing mechanism. Can you think of times that memes have been really influential in either like, swaying opinion or sharing information?
I think people started doing it around the time of Gaza getting invaded and destroyed. People learned to see their commenting, see their sharing, see their whatever as an algo-boost that would give someone money or give someone more visibility. And so then this movement where people were like, “let's pay off each other's debts” is like, okay, you watch my video, you share my video, I'll follow you, you follow me, and we're gonna use the TikTok monetization program to redistribute wealth. Which is sort of cringe and obviously not scalable, but there's something in there.
It shows an impulse and an excitement to use these tools to really come together. With the paying-off-debt trend, the problem is it's all coming from the same pot that doesn't actually pay very well. And the more everyone does it, the less everyone gets. But it is this savviness of seizing the means of production. Like, okay, well if we start with that, at least we're learning and seeing what these tools can be used for. And the hope would be that we would work towards something more effective.
The Luigi moment was really heartening for me, because it was really visible just how much common ground we have in our frustration with the healthcare system.
The Luigi thing—I made a post about it. My argument was kind of that high profile people have been assassinated since forever, but what was unique about this to me was it was so clear. And what's actually interesting about it is so many millions of people refuse to interpret it the way that it was supposed to be interpreted. The mugshot becomes a thirst trap. Surveillance camera footage to catch him becomes, "Who's this mystery man." That mass reading against what the NYPD or whoever wants you to read it as, I think there is a very revolutionary gesture that we will determine, as a digital public, what things mean to us.
In a moment of desperation, I watched one of AOC’s Lives right after the inauguration, and her whole thing is like, "We do not have to comply." And I've been thinking a lot about what that means and how I can enact that. But I think you're right. Not complying in this case can look like refusing to interpret the information how they want us to interpret it. Like, I was seeing people privately be like, "I actually don't think Luigi's that hot, but like, for the purpose of this, I'm going to thirst." And it is powerful!
But when were were emailing to set up this chat, you mentioned that your thinking had evolved since the initial post. Can you share a bit more about that?
One of the pitfalls that I think you fall into when you get optimistic about people power on the internet is a web 1.0 nostalgia. And I wasn't truly alive for that. But I did study that stuff and what I studied at undergrad was experimental web 1.0 art. And I don't think we could really go back to the web 1.0 blogosphere. It's gonna be something new and different and fresh and weird. And I don't think that we will fully get past the problems that have surrounded us on social media today. It's gonna be a post-Facebook thing rather than returning to pre-Facebook. And I think too, specifically on X, I've just been scrolling over the past few days and I've seen all this stuff about the 19-to-24-year-olds working at DOGE. It's like the most cracked group of young coders and Marc Andreessen's posting all this and I'm like, there's just nothing of value here.
What can be detrimental in a crisis is feeling like you need to do everything to do anything. And I think especially with the mechanics of scrolling, awareness can feel like doing something. And so you're on every platform and driving yourself crazy. I wonder if it's a bit more like how I try to approach things in real life, which is, what's the one thing I can do? What's the one platform or two that I'm on, and how can I engage with them mindfully or try to use it to spread information?
I'll say one spot of light on Twitter has been kind of the trifecta of Stephen A. Smith, Menswear Guy, and Cambridge PhD smell lady Ally Louks. Seeing them take on these trolls—I like being one of like the 20,000 likes on Ally's clapback post. That's a very small thing that I can do. It's a little grain of sand.
There's this dark forest idea of the internet that people talk about sometimes. As these platforms get more hostile, it's like an animal in a dark forest. We're a deer or something. And you gotta find your little corner of the dark forest where you can be with your people and plan and post and devise. You can do that. The internet is so big. You get your little corner of the dark forest and you get to live there with the people you like and become an active community member there and your actions have more scale because you're doing it in a small group.
Twitter is the one platform that's most overtly and openly being manipulated for the owner's designs. I mean, just having links deprioritized, Substack links deprioritized, and then people who pay for checks get better engagement—and you're only gonna pay for a check if you like Elon Musk and align with his mission. And there have been all these attempts to launch the conservative social media platform. And obviously there's some that exist, but they don't thrive because I do feel like the conservative movement of late is reactionary. And if they're in a space where there's nothing to react to, it doesn't gain the same traction. And I think that's why you see on Twitter as people are leaving that things like a person getting their PhD in smell suddenly becomes a days-long discourse. It's like, finally! Something for us all to get mad at for no reason!
They need that food and that fuel. It's like you're wandering around a city after a nuclear blast or something. And I still log onto X and it's all right wingers. But I've read some posts recently that are like, "Hey, you guys are getting a little crazy without the libs to push back on you." Like, within the conservative movement. "You guys are starting to say some weird stuff."
See, this is why we need people still there to report back. Deleting Twitter was good for me because that was always the platform I had the most trouble with. It would really paralyzed me with the news. But you are someone who sees everything, consumes everything, remembers everything. Do you have any of your own personal boundaries or does it not quite affect in you the same way?
Well, I meditate. I try to do an hour without the phone every day. I try to touch grass. I go outside. I go for walks every day. But I'd say too that I have a sort of clinical remove in that I'll always be never just doom scrolling. I'm taking notes for my next post or my next TikTok or whatever. What I originally wanted to do making content for TikTok was just meme analyses and talking about how I love Wojak or Big Floppa. And there's a lot of people wanting that. But then I also make political content about the tech oligarchs and surveillance capitalism and how it all connects. But I found that returning a little to the joy that I get from memes gives me a lot of life.
I went to a protest recently, I was in a crowd and there were people around. I was like, these signs are funny. You seem like people I would be friends with. And I was talking to a dude, I was like, "Hey, what's up?" I'm like, just remember what you do have despite all this. We're not alone, even though often literally when we're doom scrolling, we are alone.
Welcome to the weekly scroll, a roundup of articles, links, and other thoughts from being on the internet this week!
What I’m consuming…
At the end of last year, I went to a conference for the 18 to 35-year-olds on the receiving end of the largest wealth transfer in history. They’re set to inherit billions of dollars. They don’t want it. New from me for Business Insider!
“Lorne has lost his f---ing mind and someone needs to shoot him in the back of the head.”
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